London to trial out a Tri-Axle

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0118999

Do'er of administrative things
Administrator
Premium Subscriber
Oct 24, 2016
489
There are no poles/handrails, and whilst I think stop bells on the backs of seats is an interesting idea, I can already imagine how difficult it'll be trying to walk down the upper deck whilst the bus is moving/turning etc lol.
It's to stop rattles and make the upper saloon feel more open. There are still hand grabs provided on the seat backs typically. Other operators have used this setup previous.
 

∞ Studio

Repainter || NEED HELP WITH BLENDER! :D
Mar 25, 2018
20
Aside from the bus being tri-axle, there's a few other things to note TfL are trialing out here. There are no poles/handrails, and whilst I think stop bells on the backs of seats is an interesting idea, I can already imagine how difficult it'll be trying to walk down the upper deck whilst the bus is moving/turning etc lol.


I wouldn't say that point is specific to tri-axle buses, as the same can be said for any route gaining double decker buses. I'm sure any route that gains tri-axle buses, if any, will be routes which are already double decker. In contrast, my local route is very much a commuter route, taking only 15 minutes from the start of route to the town centre/bus station/tube station. It currently utilises single deckers every 10 mins off-peak, and every 3-7 mins during peak, but this autumn it'll be going fully double decker (at a reduced peak frequency). I think the problem you've pointed out here is what's inevitably going to happen with my local route, but we'll see!
Read what all bus operators say by law, "Please do not stand up whilst the bus is moving". Also, common sense taught you that surely?
 

HD Transport

Everything is a rush job...
Oct 4, 2017
722
Are there any regions of the UK actually using tri-axle buses?
There are 3 Nordics at Cambridge Bus & Coach (SA52 DVR/U/X)
But, DVR is off the road (I think) and DVU was off the road since this morning due to a rock chip on the windscreen and faulty hazard lights (both happened this morning, while I was on it)
 
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Lukeo

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2016
243
Read what all bus operators say by law, "Please do not stand up whilst the bus is moving". Also, common sense taught you that surely?
I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not? I used to take London bus route 507 to work.. a bus which has less seats than usual to allow more people to stand up. Standing space is always very well utilised on buses, particularly in peak hours. And if you're the last person to get on at a stop, chances are the bus will start driving as soon as you've tapped your oyster, sometimes even before. Common sense taught me to get up before the bus reaches your stop, so that you aren't slowing everyone else down, and to make sure you don't miss your stop ;)
 

BusLover2

Member
Dec 27, 2016
6
The video by ADL presents Enviro 500 series in Asia Pacific (Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Malaysia) - very effective to handle large amount of passengers
 

Road-hog123

An Orange Bus
Administrator
UKDT
Dec 10, 2015
1,660
A longer bus makes the issues of single-staircase unloading time worse - adding a second door means the lower saloon empties faster, but the upper saloon still has to wait until there's space in the lower saloon to move into, and is limited by how quickly people can file down the stairs. ADL seem up for building a dual-staircase bus for Berlin, so maybe they'll bring that option to RHD markets too.

Unfortunately although all-door-boarding works great in Poland, etc. it doesn't work so well in the UK. There's a different culture that means people here will deliberately aim for the rear doors so as to avoid paying for the bus, and then complain when the bus service is reduced because the fares that are being paid aren't enough to cover costs.

The main issue I see with tri-axles is the rear swing. It was one of the issues with the bendies and it shall still be an issue - people will keep putting themselves in between the swing and something solid (i.e. motor- and pedal-cyclists will filter up the offside of a bus turning left and get squashed into the side of a lorry) and bus drivers will keep clouting it on things near the road. They already can't drive the buses they have without crashing all the time, so it shan't help.

 

buttiebacon

Active Member
Feb 13, 2017
77
A longer bus makes the issues of single-staircase unloading time worse - adding a second door means the lower saloon empties faster, but the upper saloon still has to wait until there's space in the lower saloon to move into, and is limited by how quickly people can file down the stairs. ADL seem up for building a dual-staircase bus for Berlin, so maybe they'll bring that option to RHD markets too.

Unfortunately although all-door-boarding works great in Poland, etc. it doesn't work so well in the UK. There's a different culture that means people here will deliberately aim for the rear doors so as to avoid paying for the bus, and then complain when the bus service is reduced because the fares that are being paid aren't enough to cover costs.

The main issue I see with tri-axles is the rear swing. It was one of the issues with the bendies and it shall still be an issue - people will keep putting themselves in between the swing and something solid (i.e. motor- and pedal-cyclists will filter up the offside of a bus turning left and get squashed into the side of a lorry) and bus drivers will keep clouting it on things near the road. They already can't drive the buses they have without crashing all the time, so it shan't help.

surely for the length issue they could make sure to only use the tri-axles on routes that use mostly/only wide roads and ones with dedicated bus-lanes or they could re-route some routes to use wider roads? (so more suited for west london)
 

joeyfjj

New Member
Oct 29, 2016
5
ADL seem up for building a dual-staircase bus for Berlin, so maybe they'll bring that option to RHD markets too.
Here in Singapore there was a recent tender put out to procure 100 low-floor double deck buses, including the requirement for 2 staircases and 3 doors. These will right-hand drive, tri-axle, and likely either 12 or 12.8 metres long.

There was also a one-off demonstrator MAN A95 unit built by Gemilang of Malaysia with a (kinda) unique layout, with the second and third doors clustered in the middle, and a second staircase going up the left side behind the third door over the wheel wells.

 

LT586

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2016
344
Whoever disliked what I said didnt understand, its simply this. When BVG were evaluating their DD they trialed their own German manufacturers, Britain will look far and wide and miss who is next door. Now however they'll try external as internal MAN aren't doing DDs for the German / EU market. Just saying
 
D

Deleted member 422

I think the rear swing issue could be solved by the manufacturer setting, for example like ADL:
Watch the video your quoting from...see 2:40, when the man explains that "when the vehicle is pulled alongside the kerb, that is when you see the evidence of the increase in the rear outswing" and also see 3:00 it is demonstrated that "at full lock the outswing increases by 9 or 10 inches". In terms of what Road-Hog was talking about, such as at the bus stop, this would seemingly make the problem worse!
 
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joeyfjj

New Member
Oct 29, 2016
5
A steered tag axle actually increases the effective rear overhang.

On a bus with a fixed tag axle, when you make a turn, the bus rotates around a point somewhere between the second and the third axles. With a steered tag axle, the bus will be rotating around the second axle, making your effective rear overhang the area in yellow below!

20180604_142142_firefox.png


Instead, there are systems that can aid drivers in identifying rear outswing, including warning systems based on sensors and cameras mounted along the side of the bus.
 

Lukeo

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2016
243
From LOTS:

"...the BCI triaxle LX18 DGF will not now be trialled on route X68, an alternative route is being sought."
 

Kyle Clemenkucc

The one, the only
Jul 10, 2017
141
I think most modern buses should be fitted with distance sensors on the side of the vehicle to be honest, especially with longer buses. Drivers will always make mistakes but there would probably be a lot less mistakes made if there was a loud shouty alarm that warned them when they were about to clout the bus into something.
 
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SeaHawk14

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2017
115
Surely Alexander Dennis should have taken the initiative to provide an Enviro 500 for the trials? Afterall it's part of the family of one of the most used buses in London.
 

Jem

ononoki
Feb 18, 2018
124
Surely Alexander Dennis should have taken the initiative to provide an Enviro 500 for the trials? Afterall it's part of the family of one of the most used buses in London.
Consdiering it's a one-off, the amount of money and time required to redevelop the Enviro 500 for TfL spec, and the fact that ADL would rather have a firm order of multiple units (even for markets like Mexico and Switzerland), means that buying a single BCI would work out to be cheaper and BCI can be more flexible with their specificaions.
 

Rhys

Veteran Member
Mar 20, 2016
1,426
From LOTS:

"...the BCI triaxle LX18 DGF will not now be trialled on route X68, an alternative route is being sought."
Routes like the 25, 607 would be ideal as they are busy and go in a straight line.
The alternate route is Route 12. This actually makes a lot more sense then having it serve the X68 constantly.

The X68 only operates at certain times of the day on weekdays, and only operates in one direction depending on whether it's the morning or evening peak. Having the BCI on a Route like the 12, will ensure that it gets worked a lot more. I will not be surprised if the BCI does make a frequent appearance on the X68, but it is now destined for the 12.
 
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