London DLC Discussion [NO RELEASE DATE DISCUSSION]

LonelyOldDaf

Crisp Pringale !
Dec 28, 2017
52
Im very glad to know its still being worked on as I was a bit sceptical but why no updates not wip pics anymore maybe its just me but I really enjoy looking through the updates seeing how far we come or is that too much to ask....
 

LT586

SimJourneys Defunked
Oct 25, 2016
400
I'm afraid I don't know where you get your information from but London is well known to be one of the largest cities in Europe by population and area. The fact you can see central London from St Albans says nothing as you could say that people on the ISS can see central London.
I happen to of lived and breathed this city for 31 years, born and grown - So as far as i've travelled, if you have ever left this country - You'll note there is much more to offer elsewhere. London is complex in its bus operations and contractual tendering set up, in terms of size. NO.
And, Mr Miles, my information comes from experienced bus drivers who have done the rail replacement routes, cab drivers whom i've worked with, who know the place backwards; not that I have to explain myself to you all here, but I have worked in and out of London's buses for a number of years so I do know what I am talking about............Most car journeys take 20 minutes on a clear day, so surely, not a big place....

But as with this addon, again, any information is quickly shut down or stepped upon, half of you aren't even from here - or know a thing or two about the place to even comment, a lot of it is frustration because it's not out yet. We all know its long, but that's a project management lesson, next big project, hopefully will be handled better. But I enjoy reading the petty arguments here, you all are quite entertaining.
 

busman16

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2016
326
2022 is on Beijing, however the commonwealth games are during 2022.
Just saying

ah ok, it was a tongue in cheek comment though but good to know, I have nothing but respect for ANY content maker and like many others am patiently waiting to see what new maps/buses come along to enhance ALL our playability, like a few have mentioned I don't know why people have to pass the same (or similar) comments over and over, but would you want a rushed map that looks cack or a really enjoyable to drive one? no brainer for me, keep up the good work all who produce content for us.
 
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Stagecoachdriver

Active Member
Aug 16, 2016
38
Mate are you going to come up with something new to say? Comments like this have been said over and over again and it is incredibly boring to hear.
"Mate", I will continue to say it because it appears that many people - yourself included - haven't quite got a grip of the reality of the situation yet.

This entire thing has been a complete and utter farce from the very start.

London isnt that big, you can see Central London from St Albans. Berlin however is massive.
I happen to of lived and breathed this city for 31 years, born and grown - So as far as i've travelled, if you have ever left this country - You'll note there is much more to offer elsewhere. London is complex in its bus operations and contractual tendering set up, in terms of size. NO.
And, Mr Miles, my information comes from experienced bus drivers who have done the rail replacement routes, cab drivers whom i've worked with, who know the place backwards; not that I have to explain myself to you all here, but I have worked in and out of London's buses for a number of years so I do know what I am talking about............Most car journeys take 20 minutes on a clear day, so surely, not a big place....

But as with this addon, again, any information is quickly shut down or stepped upon, half of you aren't even from here - or know a thing or two about the place to even comment, a lot of it is frustration because it's not out yet. We all know its long, but that's a project management lesson, next big project, hopefully will be handled better. But I enjoy reading the petty arguments here, you all are quite entertaining.
Lol. London (1569 sq. km) is almost 60% bigger than Berlin (984 sq. km), what are you talking about?
Your information comes from experienced bus drivers and cab drivers? Try wikipedia or an atlas.

The only cities in Europe bigger than London are Moscow and the Essen/Düsseldorf urban area.

ah ok, it was a tongue in cheek comment though but good to know, I have nothing but respect for ANY content maker and like many others am patiently waiting to see what new maps/buses come along to enhance ALL our playability, like a few have mentioned I don't know why people have to pass the same (or similar) comments over and over, but would you want a rushed map that looks cack or a really enjoyable to drive one? no brainer for me, keep up the good work all who produce content for us.
There are other "really enjoyable to drive" maps which weren't delayed by 3 years.
 

Singularity

Member
Feb 14, 2017
17
The way I handle it is by not expecting it. If it comes, then that's cool and will be awesome. If it never comes, then fair enough, it's a possibility I have accepted.

I was hyped in the beginning but over time that hype died when it became apparent it's going to take a very, very long time to get released. If it's being worked on, we'd be lucky to see it before 2025. That's how slow progress seems to be moving. And that's fine really.

I think people should just stop expecting it to come out and just think of it as something that may come, but more likely won't for the foreseeable future. That way you won't get frustrated by the silence and how long it is taking to come out.
 

V3D

Developer of MAN Lion's City & ALX400 series
Jan 30, 2017
249
Favourite Truck
Volvo
I will admit that I was more hyped last year for it and that has reduced significantly over the recent months until I was able to see the progress. Now I'm hyped again. It'll be worth the wait, trust me... and it won't be 2025 (or later for the miseries that will prb comment... or Alex Davies)
 
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ITS A11

#RIPAnthoine
Nov 12, 2018
273
I will admit that I was more hyped last year for it and that has reduced significantly over the recent months until I was able to see the progress. Now I'm hyped again. It'll be worth the wait, trust me... and it won't be 2025 (or later for the miseries that will prb comment)
The thing is with London is that I'm so hyped but I can't even afford it 🤣
 

LonelyOldDaf

Crisp Pringale !
Dec 28, 2017
52
Sorry to start this again but I just watched @Eamons85 video on the B5TL and I think he has spoke all of our minds into one essentially this isn't an exact quote but he said he finds it hard to believe that we will be blown away by London like V3D said as there is only so much you can do with omsi and there are limitations. He then went on to say that he hopes he is blown away but he wants some kind of update to see how its progressing like we all do and hopes he will knock it out the park but if updates were given and it does blow us away it would be great he then said now would be a great time to release London as we have the Streetlite coming out now so it would be the topping on the cake for them to be released together or not too long after as he believes if that happened no one would mention delays no one would complain and no one would moan at him anymore essentially forgiving and forgetting the past which I totally agree with as there aren't really any good new maps to utilize the MS busses on so it would be perfect but now he didn't say what I'm about to btw how are MS making a London variant when rhys has done his own one already are they gonna work together merging features or what cause we cant have two of the same bus by two different people aha but even though Rhys wont see this if someone who keeps in touch with him can tell him to read this it would be mint just hoping he is doing alright and getting on well as we haven't heard word from him in a long while now :) thanks for reading everyone fingers are ded now thanks again - Tj btw nice video Eamon
 
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BlueOrange

Founder of Masterswitch Studios
Masterswitch Studios
Mar 22, 2016
344
btw how are MS making a London variant when rhys has done his own one already are they gonna work together merging features or what cause we cant have two of the same bus by two different people
I've thought about possibly having London as a dependency for the london-spec stuff we do, but at this point I have no clue. Probably end up making our own stuff, since our relationship with Rhys is not 100%..
 

LonelyOldDaf

Crisp Pringale !
Dec 28, 2017
52
I've thought about possibly having London as a dependency for the london-spec stuff we do, but at this point I have no clue. Probably end up making our own stuff, since our relationship with Rhys is not 100%..
I don't really blame you but lets hope London is out by the time you do your own London spec G3
 

FenixArg

Member
Apr 11, 2016
11
An addon like this is normal to take a loooong time. There are many factors to consider:
  • It is one of the biggest maps ever made for OMSI, in size, complexity and quality. IMO the only map with a similar scale is Manly Act Three. That map has been in development since 2016, and if you count the entire Manly project since Act One, it started in 2011-12. So you have an idea of the gargantuan job that is to create such a big map.
  • In addition to its size, it is a real map. Usually, real maps are way harder to make than fictional ones. This is for obvious reasons: in a fictional map you have full control over what you put on it, you could use default scenery or available scenery created by other developers; while a real map is based on a real city, so if you want your map to have a top tier quality you cannot just use generic assets. So you have to create a whole bunch of new scenery, which involves taking photos of the real thing, modelling, texturing and many other things that people who actually work on map creation know much more than me.
  • There is a big job behind just creating the objects of the map: tracks, lines and timetables. To make a single line you need to be continously clicking tracks all the way from start to finish, then create the timetables: how will the line run each day, will it run only Mo-Fr or only weekends, will it be a day or night service, will it stop in every stop or it is an express, etc etc. That is only ONE line; maps the size of London can have like 20 or 30 lines or maybe even more, idk how many are planned for this one but i am probably not too far.
  • Then you need to make the route helpers, because there are a lot of people that cannot drive without them (and you really need them at least for the first few runs). From my little knowledge, station links can make it easier since they apparently follow the tracks used by the line. But i do not know if these support customization, like changing the textures of the route arrows and the stop signs. If they dont, it means that if you want the helpers to be more customized (like in Yorkshire Counties, for example) you would need to manually place the route helpers... for every stop and every road that is used by at least one line.
  • And finally: this addon not only features the London map, which is already enough. In addition to the map, there are several buses in development to be released with the addon. Think about that: an entire fleet of new bus models. EACH ONE of these can take several months or even years to make.
TL;DR this addon is the OMSI equivalent to Russia in size. It is entirely normal to take so much time to develop. Probably Rhys or Aerosoft, whoever was responsible, shouldnt have announced a release date if there was still that much to do, the good old "its released when its released" would have been better. But before you criticize and start saying the addon is dead etc etc, you should think on how much effort is required to make such an enormous addon. Whenever this is released it will be surely worth the wait.
 

LonelyOldDaf

Crisp Pringale !
Dec 28, 2017
52
An addon like this is normal to take a loooong time. There are many factors to consider:
  • It is one of the biggest maps ever made for OMSI, in size, complexity and quality. IMO the only map with a similar scale is Manly Act Three. That map has been in development since 2016, and if you count the entire Manly project since Act One, it started in 2011-12. So you have an idea of the gargantuan job that is to create such a big map.
  • In addition to its size, it is a real map. Usually, real maps are way harder to make than fictional ones. This is for obvious reasons: in a fictional map you have full control over what you put on it, you could use default scenery or available scenery created by other developers; while a real map is based on a real city, so if you want your map to have a top tier quality you cannot just use generic assets. So you have to create a whole bunch of new scenery, which involves taking photos of the real thing, modelling, texturing and many other things that people who actually work on map creation know much more than me.
  • There is a big job behind just creating the objects of the map: tracks, lines and timetables. To make a single line you need to be continously clicking tracks all the way from start to finish, then create the timetables: how will the line run each day, will it run only Mo-Fr or only weekends, will it be a day or night service, will it stop in every stop or it is an express, etc etc. That is only ONE line; maps the size of London can have like 20 or 30 lines or maybe even more, idk how many are planned for this one but i am probably not too far.
  • Then you need to make the route helpers, because there are a lot of people that cannot drive without them (and you really need them at least for the first few runs). From my little knowledge, station links can make it easier since they apparently follow the tracks used by the line. But i do not know if these support customization, like changing the textures of the route arrows and the stop signs. If they dont, it means that if you want the helpers to be more customized (like in Yorkshire Counties, for example) you would need to manually place the route helpers... for every stop and every road that is used by at least one line.
  • And finally: this addon not only features the London map, which is already enough. In addition to the map, there are several buses in development to be released with the addon. Think about that: an entire fleet of new bus models. EACH ONE of these can take several months or even years to make.
TL;DR this addon is the OMSI equivalent to Russia in size. It is entirely normal to take so much time to develop. Probably Rhys or Aerosoft, whoever was responsible, shouldnt have announced a release date if there was still that much to do, the good old "its released when its released" would have been better. But before you criticize and start saying the addon is dead etc etc, you should think on how much effort is required to make such an enormous addon. Whenever this is released it will be surely worth the wait.
I agree we all know it wouldn't be a quick job obviously all I think the community wants is to know and see what is left to do to the addon as we have heard the phrase more news to follow shortly a few times now and bare in mind we aren't saying where are the updates for the sake of it we are saying that because the last time Rhys gave development pictures himself was in November last year we are now approaching September in two days time so therefore it has been 10 months since he showed us something and just over a year since he updated us on what needs finishing and how its going so I think we have the right to say what's still left as I'm sure it cant be hard to answer that's it really as for what we want as a community from him it cant be that much can it?