London Buses (not a debate) (1 Viewer)

Would it be a good idea for TFL to let buses be ran by one massive operator?


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thegamer7893

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Buses direct to central London for commuters...in rush hour...good luck keeping that one on time!

They wouldn't be going directly into central London (i.e. Victoria, Marble Arch), those services would be terminated in places where there is a direct rail connection into central London (i.e. London Bridge, Paddington).


That runs fast from central London to Croydon without stopping (I think) but yh, I fg about that route 🤣

I would say the smaller companies like Abellio will loose out and Arriva and Go Ahead or Go Ahead will take over. Metroline, their standards are really poor. So is
Slavecoach...

Abellio may be small in the buses field but they are doing big things on the railways atm. Metroline - don't know much about. Stagecoach - ugh.... However, don't forget that there is both First and National Express also out there as massive bus operators
 
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PTDriver0429

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That makes absolutely no sense people can still own a car and just not drive if they cant be asked or if they dont want to pay for the congestion charge also since when can a bus hold 90 people.

An ADL Enviro 400 Regional will hold 90 Seated and about 16 standing. Add them together and you have a total capacity of 106. (Without COVID-19 capacity restrictions.)
 
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Ddogb

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An ADL Enviro 400 Regional will hold 90 Seated and about 16 standing. Add them together and you have a total capacity of 106. (Without COVID-19 capacity restrictions.)
When talking about London they do not seat 90 in most cases, the NBFL can only hold 62 seated, 25 standing (18 with Wheelchair/buggys) that is 87 in total. bear in mind the NBFL is the second longest DD bus that operates in London so is lower on a normal bus
 

GalWhv69

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When talking about London they do not seat 90 in most cases, the NBFL can only hold 62 seated, 25 standing (18 with Wheelchair/buggys) that is 87 in total. bear in mind the NBFL is the second longest DD bus that operates in London so is lower on a normal bus
The NBFL is kind of an exception though as it's poorly designed
 
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Ddogb

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The NBFL isn't That bad and
Its very mixed with people, I do not like them top deck is ok but the lower deck seating layout is awful imo.

The three door idea don't work without conductors as it is impossible for a driver to "police" three doors. When it was established that conductors had to be removed we should have had the rear door lock. That's just my opinion on them.

The SRM is way better and should have been the one that become the NBFL.
 

thegamer7893

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Another thing which I don't understand is why did London withdraw its Bendy Buses? Was there a problem with them or was it a case of just wanting anything long and bendy off the streets of London. Imo, routes with the need for high capacity could of done well with these and especially those where there are restrictions on what vehicles can operate on that route (i.e. a low bridge)
 

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Road-hog123

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The three doors allowed easier fare evasion, the tail swing was hitting parked cars and cyclists, someone was dragged along the road trapped in the rear doors, RHD Citaros have a habit of catching fire... there were many problems with them, length being only part of it.
 
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Hullian111

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The three doors allowed easier fare evasion, the tail swing was hitting parked cars and cyclists, someone was dragged along the road trapped in the rear doors, RHD Citaros have a habit of catching fire... there were many problems with them, length being only part of it.
I personally wonder whether time and money would have been better spent trying to fix the problems associated with the bendies rather than withdrawing them and replacing them with politically-charged and nostalgia-infused NRMs that don't even have conductors or hop-on rear-door entrances. The NRM smacks of rose-tinted glasses nostalgia, but given the right amount of time and TfL money - granted, though, there was a recession coming - would they have, in the tight old streets of London, eventually worked?

I'm no expert once again on this, and I have never rode or even seen a London Citaro before, but I'm genuinely curious to know whether after fixing the bits that catch fire, it would've been somewhat more practical in the end over just everyone over the age of 40 thinking "it's not a routemaster reeeeee". Because when you look into it, that open platform lost £3.6 million a year out of TfL's pocket to fare evasion, which while quite cheap compared to the apparent £7 million lost a year, is still a lot of money to lose on fare-dodgers.

I see we've changed the title of the page yet again, meanwhile.
 
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BKG93

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They wouldn't be going directly into central London (i.e. Victoria, Marble Arch), those services would be terminated in places where there is a direct rail connection into central London (i.e. London Bridge, Paddington).
Those areas still take a long time to get around in and out of rush hour. Bit flawed considering you can do the journey in probably a quarter of the time by train albeit at a higher cost, but as an ex-London commuter myself I'd rather pay the money for a much much quicker journey which ironically is more reliable than buses would be/are.

I personally wonder whether time and money would have been better spent trying to fix the problems associated with the bendies rather than withdrawing them and replacing them with politically-charged and nostalgia-infused NRMs that don't even have conductors or hop-on rear-door entrances. The NRM smacks of rose-tinted glasses nostalgia, but given the right amount of time and TfL money - granted, though, there was a recession coming - would they have, in the tight old streets of London, eventually worked?

I'm no expert once again on this, and I have never rode or even seen a London Citaro before, but I'm genuinely curious to know whether after fixing the bits that catch fire, it would've been somewhat more practical in the end over just everyone over the age of 40 thinking "it's not a routemaster reeeeee". Because when you look into it, that open platform lost £3.6 million a year out of TfL's pocket to fare evasion, which while quite cheap compared to the apparent £7 million lost a year, is still a lot of money to lose on fare-dodgers.

I see we've changed the title of the page yet again, meanwhile.
'fixing' the issues of the bendies is a lot more extensive than its worth. How do you fix fare evasion without spending money on conductors? How do you fix the tail swing hitting cars? All for only an extra 20 or so in capacity, when you could just purchase new buses and run a slightly higher frequency. The NRMs although very flawed in their key design elements functionally (the rear platform that don't function, lack of air-conditioning, low capacity, and high purchase cost), they do still do the job they was meant to do which is transport people and they also give London a unique image which is recognised around the world, which depending on your opinion could justify the price tag.
 
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thegamer7893

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The three doors allowed easier fare evasion, the tail swing was hitting parked cars and cyclists, someone was dragged along the road trapped in the rear doors, RHD Citaros have a habit of catching fire... there were many problems with them, length being only part of it.

I'd do a Berlin with them and make the rear 2 doors exit only and add on restrictions on how and where they can be operated

However the issue around them (the Citaro's G's) catching fire is an issue which is very concerning. However, was the source of the issue ever found?

I personally wonder whether time and money would have been better spent trying to fix the problems associated with the bendies rather than withdrawing them and replacing them with politically-charged and nostalgia-infused NRMs that don't even have conductors or hop-on rear-door entrances. The NRM smacks of rose-tinted glasses nostalgia, but given the right amount of time and TfL money - granted, though, there was a recession coming - would they have, in the tight old streets of London, eventually worked?

I'm no expert once again on this, and I have never rode or even seen a London Citaro before, but I'm genuinely curious to know whether after fixing the bits that catch fire, it would've been somewhat more practical in the end over just everyone over the age of 40 thinking "it's not a routemaster reeeeee". Because when you look into it, that open platform lost £3.6 million a year out of TfL's pocket to fare evasion, which while quite cheap compared to the apparent £7 million lost a year, is still a lot of money to lose on fare-dodgers.

I see we've changed the title of the page yet again, meanwhile.

I've grown to dislike the routemasters as they are not really "hybrid" buses as they were meant to be and they have alot of other major issues (i.e. AC system not working). Imo, I think that really are just stylish regular buses and in my world, I would rather spend millions of pounds sorting out the issues with the bendy Citaro's as opposed to buying buses which will eventually turned into stylish regular buses

@Hullian111 You don't say! 🤣

Those areas still take a long time to get around in and out of rush hour. Bit flawed considering you can do the journey in probably a quarter of the time by train albeit at a higher cost, but as an ex-London commuter myself I'd rather pay the money for a much much quicker journey which ironically is more reliable than buses would be/are.


'fixing' the issues of the bendies is a lot more extensive than its worth. How do you fix fare evasion without spending money on conductors? How do you fix the tail swing hitting cars? All for only an extra 20 or so in capacity, when you could just purchase new buses and run a slightly higher frequency. The NRMs although very flawed in their key design elements functionally (the rear platform that don't function, lack of air-conditioning, low capacity, and high purchase cost), they do still do the job they was meant to do which is transport people and they also give London a unique image which is recognised around the world, which depending on your opinion could justify the price tag.

The routemasters are just stylish regular buses imo because their 3 door usage was cut due to the fare dodgers which is a shame

However over time, I've grown to dislike them more cos they are not really "hybrid" buses as they were meant to be on intro and the fact that the air conditioning doesn't work makes the buses not the best for summer and even though there are openable windows, that shouldn't be an excuse for having an AC system which doesn't function
 

FirstEnviro

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I'd do a Berlin with them and make the rear 2 doors exit only
How would this be enforced though? It still increases chances of people getting on through these doors compared to a regular dual door. Just having a sign saying "exit only" will not prevent people getting on. Issue remains.
 

thegamer7893

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How would this be enforced though? It still increases chances of people getting on through these doors compared to a regular dual door. Just having a sign saying "exit only" will not prevent people getting on. Issue remains.

I would install facial recognition cameras at the exit doors and if that doesn't work, do a regional and make the tail only have an exit door and make the front part have only have the entrance door
 
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Planesandbuses

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How would this be enforced though? It still increases chances of people getting on through these doors compared to a regular dual door. Just having a sign saying "exit only" will not prevent people getting on. Issue remains.

The New Routemaster buses operate on this setup of boarding at the front door and exiting at the rear two doors so no reason why it wouldn't work with a bendy bus.
 
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HD Transport

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I would install facial recognition cameras at the edit doors
Unfortunately then we'll have an issue with the ethical side of that. Whilst many people hate thinking about that sort of stuff it is something that needs to be considered. And of course face masks at present.
The New Routemaster buses operate on this setup of boarding at the front door and exiting at the rear two doors so no reason why it wouldn't work with a bendy bus.
They're a lot longer and chances are driver's won't see the rear/third door in a mirror. Even with a camera it takes under 2 seconds to hop on and be out of view.

Whilst I like bendy buses, no city in the UK really wants them anymore. Shame really since they're fun to travel on but nevermind...
 
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Hullian111

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I would install facial recognition cameras at the edit doors and if that doesn't work,
That’s a right-to-privacy lawsuit in the making there. You think this hasn’t worried people enough?
1603039316581.jpeg

Imagine the outrage with facial recognition...
 
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thegamer7893

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Unfortunately then we'll have an issue with the ethical side of that. Whilst many people hate thinking about that sort of stuff it is something that needs to be considered. And of course face masks at present.

They're a lot longer and chances are driver's won't see the rear/third door in a mirror. Even with a camera it takes under 2 seconds to hop on and be out of view.

Whilst I like bendy buses, no city in the UK really wants them anymore. Shame really since they're fun to travel on but nevermind...

There will be people what are not be happy about this, but what are we supposed to do if there is millions lost yearly to fare dodgers?

Bendy buses are long bois but I'd probably have them install rear door and have one on the tail for turning purposes

Cardiff still have bendy buses the last time I checked

That’s a right-to-privacy lawsuit in the making there. You think this hasn’t worried people enough?
View attachment 73260
Imagine the outrage with facial recognition...

As mentioned above, people will not be happy with it but how are we meant to bring down the millions lost to fare dodging?
 

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