Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 (2006-2017)- Opinions?

Do You Like The Enviro 200?

  • Yes

    Votes: 133 84.2%
  • Neutral/ Indifferent

    Votes: 21 13.3%
  • No

    Votes: 9 5.7%

  • Total voters
    158

Troyski

Developing the Alton Towners map due this century!
Mar 16, 2017
122
As seen a few months ago, the community seems to favour the Enviro 200 to its despised opponent, the Wright Streetlite.

I personally like the various incarnations of the second generation of this bus (2006-2017), as the first image, showing a different rear layout, was actually the failed first gen bus, the first crossover project of Alexander and Dennis, I think.

The early one door variants (2006/58 reg) I think are downright dreadful. They're too compact, poorly designed and way too loud. I haven't been on the early 2 door buses (2007/2008) though. From 2009 onwards, I think the E200 found its stride, with a line of good 9.6, 10.2 and 10.8 buses until its original name's discontinuation as of 2015, making way for the E200 MMC.

My favourites are the 2008/59 reg 10.2/.8m E200s on route P4, drivers seem pretty confident at racing though the streets of Dulwich and Forest Hill on this bus and the YX64 reg on route 201, its strange whirring sound makes it notable.

What do you guys think of it?

Also, Enviro 200's with a reg of 65 or newer are rarer, since they are known as 'Classic' Enviro 200's until 2017, when they were discontinued entirely.

Thank you to everyone who commented and voted on the EvoSeti post, it was good to converse.

1st Image: Enviro 200 (1st gen) (SN54GRU)
2nd Image: On route 356, Stagecoach London (LX58CBY, 8.9m)
3rd Image: On route P4, Stagecoach London (LX09ADU, 10.8m)
4th Image: On route 61A, Halton Transport (DK60AHO, 10.2m)
5th Image: On route 410, Arriva London (LJ12BYO, 9.6m)
6th Image: On route 322, Stagecoach Manchester (YX64VYH, 9.6m?)
7th Image: On route 201, Abellio London (YX64YJJ, 10.8m)
 

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XxGamerDude90xX

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
278
I have an E200 on my local route. They are ok however they scream on a steep gradient and
on a cold day the heaters don’t really know what heat is in the winter and what cold air is in summer. I much prefer the E200 dart than the one with the middle fire exit model. I also do like the MAN E200 apart from the back which is too high for me.
 

Troyski

Developing the Alton Towners map due this century!
Mar 16, 2017
122
I have an E200 on my local route. They are ok however they scream on a steep gradient and
on a cold day the heaters don’t really know what heat is in the winter and what cold air is in summer. I much prefer the E200 dart than the one with the middle fire exit model. I also do like the MAN E200 apart from the back which is too high for me.
Do you know what reg it is? I wouldn't be surprised if it was an early one.
 

Costar1198

Some guy from Croydon innit
Mar 30, 2016
189
I've ridden a lot of Enviro 200s in my life and have gathered the following information while riding them:

Early ones - I have ridden Abellio London's 56 reg 10.2s and Arriva London's 07/58 reg 10.2s (both Allison) and they are godawful. As you said, loud, rattly, generally an unpleasant ride. However they do manage to get up to good revs and that makes for a slightly more exciting ride.

Late pre-facelift - Here I am talking about Abellio's and Southdown's 59 reg buses(both Allison). They are slightly better than the older ones, however I find that due to the single centre light strip on the Abellio ones they tend to be incredibly dark during the night compared to other buses.

Euro 5 Facelift - These are a bit of a mixed bag, I have had Abellio's pair of 61 reg which were absolutely dreadful, always having issues, glad they are gone now to be honest. I have also ridden Go Aheads 61 reg on the 455, these are half decent I guess... Moving onto 12 plates, we have Abellios batch on the 433 (YX12 DL*) which to be quite honest are the best Enviro 200s I have ever ridden, so much power in them, and they dont rattle too badly either. Next we move onto Metrobus 13 reg.... oh dear... These are the definition of awful, having ridden examples from the 126 batch and the 434 I can safely say these are almost as underpowered as hell. Heck these are just the Allison ones. Moving onto Voith we have Stagecoaches godawful 12 reg used on the 314. Yes they accelerate at a semi decent rate, but the nature of the gearbox means you cant go above 40 without it screaming its guts out, same can be said for the Stagecoach R routes 63 reg, they also like to jerk about a bit when changing gears

Euro 6 Facelift - Hell these things have all of the power on this planet. I have ridden Voith, ZF and Allison variants and I will go through them individually. But to start, overall they are brilliant. Yes they sound like toys (and dependent on the batch a jet engine), these things go like absolute stink. Starting with Allison, These ones are the fastest accelerating of them all. Having ridden Quality Lines S3 batch (64 reg), these are pretty beastly and go up hills like no tomorrow. Except they sound a bit like a jet and make quite a racket when doing so. Moving onto Voith.... Terrible... Now for ZF, I have ridden part of the R2's batch and they really aint much. Jerky and dull to say the least. Now we have that, and we have the 407/201 batch..... Ohhh these are the best Euro 6 enviros I have ridden. Yes they may be jerky, yes they might be loud due to something making it sound like a jet, but they pack some punch, and they are generally fun to be on because theyre so unpredictable. Sometimes they go into overdrive mode and use a really short gear ratio and overrev their guts out,and sometimes the turbos break slightly and they sound like a fox at night. Despite all these being negatives due to lack of comfort and noise levels too high, I really like these because of that, gives them character...

So yeah, Enviro 200s, getting progressively better since 2009, and then completely flopping once they only started offering Voith Stop Start on the MMC...
 
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Planesandbuses

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2016
260
Maybe in terms of the Euro 6 Allisons, I sort of like them. However, a bus is more than an engine and a gearbox. To put it like this, the 09/60 plate ones we have on the 33 in London are awful. They rattle, had loose panels and poles from day one and have a terrible ride quality. The early Allison MMC's are ok. They don't rattle as much. However now that they are being built in batches the quality has been lost and with a Voith gearbox dare, I say as bad as Streetlites. The seating layout is worse than the original, the ride quality still awful and now because of the violent Voith retarder feature really harsh braking. I realise some will like them, however to me all lightweight buses will never be as amazing as a proper heavyweight single decker.
 

funanddrpepper

South London boi
Feb 23, 2017
28
i like the E200 and the E200mmc. i dont know what it is but i like the engine sound of them. theres alot of them near where i am so i ride on them alot but preferbably at the moment im in love with the mmc it looks beautifull specially in ariiva like the picture above
 

ben_britton

Omsi Repainter
Oct 24, 2016
227
As most know I am in awe with the E200, you only have to look at my signature. We have some YX64 plates round by me and there seems to be some variant in them though. I think First Bus have the little 8.9m and the 10.2m (Not sure don't quote me). The little ones have some sort of turbo scream which personally I like but after a while I can imagine it gets irritating. The 10.2 ones however are lovely. They are smooth and quiet and I think they're great. They've recently got some 65 plate MMCs too and I love the gargling noise it makes when it changes up gears after being revved quite high. I think the E200 Classic was smoother than the MMC but still a great spacious bus. And I love seeing the classic come around the corner after its replaced those stupid Streetlite things for my commute. At least I don't rattle to death on the way to work on the E200
 

funanddrpepper

South London boi
Feb 23, 2017
28
As most know I am in awe with the E200, you only have to look at my signature. We have some YX64 plates round by me and there seems to be some variant in them though. I think First Bus have the little 8.9m and the 10.2m (Not sure don't quote me). The little ones have some sort of turbo scream which personally I like but after a while I can imagine it gets irritating. The 10.2 ones however are lovely. They are smooth and quiet and I think they're great. They've recently got some 65 plate MMCs too and I love the gargling noise it makes when it changes up gears after being revved quite high. I think the E200 Classic was smoother than the MMC but still a great spacious bus. And I love seeing the classic come around the corner after its replaced those stupid Streetlite things for my commute. At least I don't rattle to death on the way to work on the E200

i dont like the streetlite's metro bus have some tidgy ones and all the drivers say heen they find out they have a dart pointer or a E200 they get soo happy as apparently the streetlite is rubbish to drive
 

Troyski

Developing the Alton Towners map due this century!
Mar 16, 2017
122
62 plate

Credit to mattybuzz
That's interesting. It likely has a poor gearbox or a low powered Cummins engine.

I've ridden a lot of Enviro 200s in my life and have gathered the following information while riding them:

Early ones - I have ridden Abellio London's 56 reg 10.2s and Arriva London's 07/58 reg 10.2s (both Allison) and they are godawful. As you said, loud, rattly, generally an unpleasant ride. However they do manage to get up to good revs and that makes for a slightly more exciting ride.

Late pre-facelift - Here I am talking about Abellio's and Southdown's 59 reg buses(both Allison). They are slightly better than the older ones, however I find that due to the single centre light strip on the Abellio ones they tend to be incredibly dark during the night compared to other buses.

Euro 5 Facelift - These are a bit of a mixed bag, I have had Abellio's pair of 61 reg which were absolutely dreadful, always having issues, glad they are gone now to be honest. I have also ridden Go Aheads 61 reg on the 455, these are half decent I guess... Moving onto 12 plates, we have Abellios batch on the 433 (YX12 DL*) which to be quite honest are the best Enviro 200s I have ever ridden, so much power in them, and they dont rattle too badly either. Next we move onto Metrobus 13 reg.... oh dear... These are the definition of awful, having ridden examples from the 126 batch and the 434 I can safely say these are almost as underpowered as hell. Heck these are just the Allison ones. Moving onto Voith we have Stagecoaches godawful 12 reg used on the 314. Yes they accelerate at a semi decent rate, but the nature of the gearbox means you cant go above 40 without it screaming its guts out, same can be said for the Stagecoach R routes 63 reg, they also like to jerk about a bit when changing gears

Euro 6 Facelift - Hell these things have all of the power on this planet. I have ridden Voith, ZF and Allison variants and I will go through them individually. But to start, overall they are brilliant. Yes they sound like toys (and dependent on the batch a jet engine), these things go like absolute stink. Starting with Allison, These ones are the fastest accelerating of them all. Having ridden Quality Lines S3 batch (64 reg), these are pretty beastly and go up hills like no tomorrow. Except they sound a bit like a jet and make quite a racket when doing so. Moving onto Voith.... Terrible... Now for ZF, I have ridden part of the R2's batch and they really aint much. Jerky and dull to say the least. Now we have that, and we have the 407/201 batch..... Ohhh these are the best Euro 6 enviros I have ridden. Yes they may be jerky, yes they might be loud due to something making it sound like a jet, but they pack some punch, and they are generally fun to be on because theyre so unpredictable. Sometimes they go into overdrive mode and use a really short gear ratio and overrev their guts out,and sometimes the turbos break slightly and they sound like a fox at night. Despite all these being negatives due to lack of comfort and noise levels too high, I really like these because of that, gives them character...

So yeah, Enviro 200s, getting progressively better since 2009, and then completely flopping once they only started offering Voith Stop Start on the MMC...
Thanks for the sectioned paragraphs. Your post was a good read.

In all honesty, my statement of the E200 having a stride of good buses after 2009, is pretty weak.

The Abellio 60 & 11 reg 9.6m on route 484 are likely as bad as the 56 reg ones, since I haven't ridden them. They're shoddily made with a painful, screeching engine and cheap interior parts.

Your other listed buses, such as the 314, 433, 434, R2 and S3, I haven't ridden either, but I've seen them, especially the 455, which may use the same order of buses as Go Ahead London's P12 E200's. If so, I agree that they're fine, but on hills, the P12 slowly trundles its way up, making a bit of a racket too.

As an eye opener, when you mentioned the Metrobus E200s on the 126, they aren't as good as I thought. Before being transferred to Stagecoach, I used to travel on the 284 with these same buses and whilst they're comfortable, I don't believe the engine can handle all 10.8m of the bus.

Finally, the characteristics as you stated of the E200s on the 201 and 407 do give it true distinction from the previous bunch. In a similar way to the E400H of late 2013 to 2015, these buses have a slightly overbearing engine sound, which truth be told, can be irritating to some, but it sounds powerful and as you said jet like.

Despite only travelling on the 201 a couple of times, it was good to a surge of power when blasting through Tulse Hill and Streatham. These E200's are likely my favourite too, but its a shame they aren't as common as earlier instalments.
 

Paul.G

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2016
150
We have a good number of 65 plate E200mmc in First Glasgow but my opinion is that they are not as well built as the 62/13 plate E300 in the fleet. Saying that we are getting 62 plate E200s from Southampton with 44527,44529,44530 already repainted and awaiting a vault to be installed before it hits the road which I was told would be in a few weeks time. So will see what they are actually like and if they rattle/shake as bad as the E200mmcs. (Not all the mmcs in the fleet rattle/shake but a good few do)
 
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Troyski

Developing the Alton Towners map due this century!
Mar 16, 2017
122
Maybe in terms of the Euro 6 Allisons, I sort of like them. However, a bus is more than an engine and a gearbox. To put it like this, the 09/60 plate ones we have on the 33 in London are awful. They rattle, had loose panels and poles from day one and have a terrible ride quality. The early Allison MMC's are ok. They don't rattle as much. However now that they are being built in batches the quality has been lost and with a Voith gearbox dare, I say as bad as Streetlites. The seating layout is worse than the original, the ride quality still awful and now because of the violent Voith retarder feature really harsh braking. I realise some will like them, however to me all lightweight buses will never be as amazing as a proper heavyweight single decker.
Are Streetlites really that bad? I know they're terrible, specifically the 9.5m ones, but personally I think they're better than the 9.6m Enviro 200 stock of 2009/2010.

Anyway, I agree with big orders of buses having poor build quality. A batch of LK66 reg 9.5m Streetlites operated on route 450 in London are very bad. They have an issue with their engine producing a thick murky smell, which enters the back region if the bus. These Streetlites are the only buses that run on the route as well and with the 7-9 minute frequency, you can tell this bulk of (an assumed) 20 Streetlites are of worse quality than usual.

i like the E200 and the E200mmc. i dont know what it is but i like the engine sound of them. theres alot of them near where i am so i ride on them alot but preferably at the moment im in love with the mmc it looks beautifull specially in ariiva like the picture above
I believe the Enviro 200 I believe uses two variants of the Cummins ISBE engine, with a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder option, similar to the Streetlite, but with arguably more power, due to its higher weight. The E200 of last gen has an electric engine option, called 'H' giving a high pitched, airy sound and the MMC uses a revised Cummins engine. They both sound good, I personally prefer the E200H, but the MMC is nice.

As most know I am in awe with the E200, you only have to look at my signature. We have some YX64 plates round by me and there seems to be some variant in them though. I think First Bus have the little 8.9m and the 10.2m (Not sure don't quote me). The little ones have some sort of turbo scream which personally I like but after a while I can imagine it gets irritating. The 10.2 ones however are lovely. They are smooth and quiet and I think they're great. They've recently got some 65 plate MMCs too and I love the gargling noise it makes when it changes up gears after being revved quite high. I think the E200 Classic was smoother than the MMC but still a great spacious bus. And I love seeing the classic come around the corner after its replaced those stupid Streetlite things for my commute. At least I don't rattle to death on the way to work on the E200
If the MMCs rev high, then you might like the Streetlite's engine? Not too sure though, its higher pitched, but it's just a guess.

i dont like the streetlite's metro bus have some tidgy ones and all the drivers say heen they find out they have a dart pointer or a E200 they get soo happy as apparently the streetlite is rubbish to drive
I wouldn't be surprised if drivers don't like the Streetlite. Their jerky ride is likely a result of the bus instead of driver skill, so they'll get irritated when it dashes passengers from back to front during braking.
 

Mikey

Howdy.
Feb 6, 2018
356
I particularly love the E200 Allisons in Coventry/Nuneton in the KX60 Range. It may feel a little unstable at times but it's a very lively journey and sounds fantastic.
However the MMC I am not fond of. They sound awkward and they seem to take forever to reach a certain speed.

Also in North Birmingham we have a range of E200s from 2017 (e.g. YX17 NYY).
 
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Scientia1423

Member
Nov 11, 2017
18
Is there an Allison transmission on the E200MMC? Also, the 2nd generation E200's sound similar to the Wright Cadets, especially if it is revved up a hill.
 

XxGamerDude90xX

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
278
I particularly love the E200 Allisons in Coventry/Nuneton in the KX60 Range. It may feel a little unstable at times but it's a very lively journey and sounds fantastic.
However the MMC I am not fond of. They sound awkward and they seem to take forever to reach a certain speed.

Also in North Birmingham we have a range of E200s from 2017 (e.g. YX17 NYY).
The old 48’s were a treat with sounds